Simon Foster – Out of God.
John 7 v 1 -24
Understand the background and context and series of events in these verses.
There is an expectation of the Jews that Jesus would be at the feast, this brings about the division of feelings about him.
There is lots about secretly and openly.
Jesus goes to the temple and the Jews remark on his understanding.
Jesus answers and talks about the doctrine being “out of God”
KJV doesn’t show the “out” aspect, but indicates the origin of where the gospel is from.
42. Hath not the scripture said, That Christ cometh of the seed of David, and out of the town of Bethlehem, where David was?
“out of the seed of David”
In chapter 8, the Jews are speaking about being the children of Abraham.
39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them,If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
42. Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
“out of God” and “he sent me”
This is in the context of the argument about fatherhood.
44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth inhim. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
47. He that is “out” of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not “out” of God.
After this, they pick up stones and Jesus goes out.
28. For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29. But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but “out” of God.
Outward and inwardly words are both used in John 7 v 10 where Jesus went secretly.
This is expounding about having Abraham as a father.
1 Cor 2
Read the chapter
v4 – Paul declares how he had spoken
v7 – How we speak the word of God (hidden is related to secretly)
12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is “out” of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
John uses this phrase 66 times in the gospel and epistles! – More than any other writer.
1 John 2
16. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not “out” of the Father, but is “out” of the world.
1 John 3
8. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9. Whosoever is born “out” of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born “out” of God.
10. In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not “out” of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
11. For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.
12. Not as Cain, who was “out” of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother’s righteous.
We might do righteousness otherwise we are not “out” of God.
1 John 4
Here it talks about testing spirits.
1. Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are “out” of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not “out” of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4. Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
5. They are “out” of the world: therefore speak they “out” of the world, and the world heareth them.
6. We are “out” of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not “out” of God heareth notus. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
29. Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30. They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31. Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32. Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33. For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34. Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35. And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39. And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given meI should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
and v41 – 51
Note the “out of”s that occur.
Asa Skinner added
44. No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
30. And all the city was moved, and the people ran together: and they took Paul, and drew him out of the temple: and forthwith the doors were shut.
6. And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find.They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.
There is a sense of force, a drag or pull.
In John 6, Jesus was in the audience of people who were not called and he was describing the situation of those that are drawn or called by God.
Mark Morris added
OT background to some of this
Thinking about the sense of “out of”
There has been a sense of origin in the refs we’ve looked at. Some idea of movement.
Sometimes it’s not like this at all.
15. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from (out of) his mother’s womb.
This is about J the B and is like the other references we have seen, however,
11. And there appeared unto him an angel of the Lord standing on (out of) the right side of the altar of incense.
Here it is the relationship between the alter and the angel. On the right side.
The angel is standing, he hasn’t come “out of” the side of the alter.
Had a look in Acts where there is a quotation.
25. For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
This is similar to the Luke incident. On the right again.
This is from Ps 16
8. I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
In Hebrew is reads: That from my right, not I will be moved.
Then looked at “from my right”
What did David mean by saying this? I have set Yahweh to my presence continually, where is he?, from my right.
Here we get the spacial sense as it occurs with the left also.
22. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon the dry ground: and the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left.
In context of Ps 16, David is in the presence continually, then Yahweh is on the right and he will not be moved.
The water is FROM the right and FROM their left. It clearly didn’t come out of their hands etc. It is spacial.
1. And this is the blessing, wherewith Moses the man of God blessed the children of Israel before his death.
2. And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.
Is there movement? Is it going out? OR is it proximity?
This is similar to some of the NT passages we’ve seen where Jesus went out FROM God and into the world.
OR – is the law AT his right hand.
There is a sense of the words going out.
3. Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.
4. Moses commanded us a law, even the inheritance of the congregation of Jacob.
There is a picture of the words going out and being received by the people.
Perhaps both of these things are going on here, both proximity and origination.
We have been translated into the heavenlies in Christ.
23. And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Some of his flesh was built into here, she was taken out of Man.
20. And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
It was good that man wasn’t alone. Here we pick up the presence idea, linking to what David says in Ps 16
8. I have set the LORD always before me: because he is at my right hand, I shall not be moved.
There is a link with the presence aspect. Yahweh is always before him.
Andrew Harrison added
Nicodemas and Jesus
3. Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he can not see the kingdom of God.
4. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
5. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he can not enter into the kingdom of God.
6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but cans tnot tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
Origin of his birth and his destination.
4. And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
Two aspects of Jesus.. Out of the seed of David, but he is designated the Son of God in power, and “out of” the resurrection of the dead.
Already born of the spirit, but now born again of the spirit.
Mat Foster added
Note that in 1 Cor 15
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47. The first man is “out” of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord “out” from heaven.
Aspects of being out of the earth and out from heaven.
Adam was made a living soul.
27. Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Christ’s soul was not left, it was brought out of the grave.
5. Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
6. Not with eye service, as men pleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God “out” from the heart (soul);
We should be doing the will out God out our soul.
23. And what soever ye do, do it heartily (out of the soul), as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24. Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
Translation of heartily does not show the out of the soul link with Eph 6.
There is a mirroring going on, but this speaks to how we should be, after the spirit, not after the earthly like Adam.